tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post950431224683326957..comments2024-02-22T00:36:40.647+02:00Comments on Kalevan ja Untamon geenit: Iron Age Briton and Anglo-Saxon genomes tested using dstatMaurihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03670078523265515878noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-80899528193570311652016-03-01T10:55:11.288+02:002016-03-01T10:55:11.288+02:00Sorry, my previous message was that USUALLY pca ma...Sorry, my previous message was that USUALLY pca makes the finnish bifurcation on the Siberian and genetic drift of Finnish late settlements. I don't do it, my grouping is based on historical main events in Finland. I don't use pca in this meaning. I only stated that other people do it using pca and if you use pca with my dedicated Local and MostCW samples you get nothing informative if you expect "old fashion results" typically got in tests. So your previous dstat is just expected; there is practically no Siberian difference, but it is not question about genetic drift.<br /><br />My FinnLocal is not made extracting highest Siberian among Finns, so it is not the question. The local Finnish group seems to be a local group, as I named it. But mostly people (other bloggers and those making businees, like 23andme and FtDja) create the Finnish or East Finnish group by extracting Siberian admixture and/or genetic drift. I don't do it. My FinnLocal groups represents local ancestry from the beginning of times. in other words I am very well aware of what other people do and what has gone wrong historically speaking. I am not bragging, I only know more about the Finnish history and can follow it. Frankly speaking following insistently a presumption expecting only Siberian admixture and/or genetic drift is a simple and patent answer for what people don't know. Sorry to say that, but I have to be honest.Maurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670078523265515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-49262715265076258532016-03-01T00:53:41.311+02:002016-03-01T00:53:41.311+02:00I don't think the difference between "loc...I don't think the difference between "local" and East Finns is related to Siberian because we did that comparison before using verified East Finns and the difference was insignificant, a near-zero result.<br /><br />EastFinnish FinnLocal Nganassan Chimp.DG 0.0005 Z 0.256 SNP 231799 <br /><br />So it has to be something else, drift or, if admixture, something unrelated to Nganasans.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-50057655807748134552016-03-01T00:25:11.811+02:002016-03-01T00:25:11.811+02:00Who ever tries to generate PCA's using those s...Who ever tries to generate PCA's using those samples will surprise after seeing ordinary West-Finns / East-Finns groupings. The PCA is not the way to go. I have said it hundreds times. Why? Because PCA makes thing wrongly; it makes a bifurcation based on 4-8% Siberian and the genetic drift common in East Finland. It gives less importance to the rest 80% or so. Maurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670078523265515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-72026825337799601692016-03-01T00:09:52.446+02:002016-03-01T00:09:52.446+02:00Of course, you're welcome
FinnLocal
HG00176
...Of course, you're welcome<br /><br />FinnLocal<br /><br />HG00176<br />HG00182<br />HG00185<br />HG00187<br />HG00266<br />HG00276<br />HG00282<br />HG00304<br />HG00309<br />HG00313<br />HG00326<br />HG00330<br />HG00338<br />HG00365<br />HG00378<br /> <br /><br />FinnMostCW<br /><br />HG00174<br />HG00177<br />HG00178<br />HG00190<br />HG00268<br />HG00274<br />HG00277<br />HG00285<br />HG00311<br />HG00320<br />HG00353<br />HG00362<br />HG00364<br />HG00376<br />HG00381<br />HG00384<br /><br /><br />Originally I had a few more, but some samples turned out to be outliers, likely with Slavic admixture (although those outliers are classified as pure Finns in 1000g project). Maurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670078523265515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-59162909072430884072016-02-29T23:09:53.993+02:002016-02-29T23:09:53.993+02:00One more thing, you might want to put the 1000geno...One more thing, you might want to put the 1000genomes id's for mostcw and local groups up (hg00X etc) up in a post. That way others with the data can repeat/verify the results too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-43449892267338683272016-02-29T20:39:12.093+02:002016-02-29T20:39:12.093+02:00okey-dokeyokey-dokeyMaurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670078523265515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-4045117125499907662016-02-29T20:30:39.231+02:002016-02-29T20:30:39.231+02:00I mean that the IBS sharing of Scots and Welsh, Li...I mean that the IBS sharing of Scots and Welsh, Lithuanians and French with ancient Britons differed. Not Scots sharing with other Scots or Welsh, or Lithuanians with other Lithuanians.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-40415824527567886992016-02-29T19:57:44.459+02:002016-02-29T19:57:44.459+02:00We will see. What I have seen at 23andme the Finn...We will see. What I have seen at 23andme the Finnish intrapopulational ibs difference is puzzlng; many pure Finns are very far away from each other, but in general people living late Finnish settlements get high ibs numbers. This is what happens when people share commn root and are less mixed. Then in old settlement they share less common ibs than for example Lithuanians. But as i wrote ibs is not straight comparable with genetic drift. Especially comparing ancient genomes to modern populations using ibs is problematic. For that reason we use qpDsat and qpAdm. Maurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670078523265515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-41702434862818490082016-02-29T19:43:26.558+02:002016-02-29T19:43:26.558+02:00I think we would still see pretty significant diff...I think we would still see pretty significant differences. In the study these ancient British samples are from, the IBS results of Scots and Welsh differed from each other more than those of Lithuanians and French did, and differences between Finnish subpopulations should be greater than those between subpopulations from the British Isles. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-79218375018063849102016-02-29T19:13:41.892+02:002016-02-29T19:13:41.892+02:00I really like to do it and will do it. But there ...I really like to do it and will do it. But there is some basics to follow before one can understand the difference between ibs and genetic drift. While ibs stands for simple statistics sĥowing allele similarity and more mixed populations usually get loẃ results despite if the ancestry, genetic drift shows smaller dedicated proportions of common ancestry. In Finnish results it means that intrapopulational difference can grow, because some Finnish "tribes" can lack of some admixtures, even though the Finns can have partially same root. It follows also that other Finns show high drift similarity with Iron Age Brits and some show almost no common drift with those Brits. When we then look ibs we see no similar sorting because ibs sees the whole genome as one big lump. I hope you got wind if my explanation.Maurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670078523265515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-61713803844894864932016-02-29T18:21:34.395+02:002016-02-29T18:21:34.395+02:00The low amount of Finnish samples in the original ...The low amount of Finnish samples in the original study is just another reason to do the IBS stats with your dataset. Only that way we can see if mostcw, local and maybe your project references show different results than what D-stats give here and how will those results differ.<br /><br />We can already see that there is massive differentiation, far more than between many individual European countries, between different Finnish samples and groups using D-stats, and I figure the result will be same using IBS. But can't be absolutely sure before the test is done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-24271996142499049422016-02-29T17:59:36.127+02:002016-02-29T17:59:36.127+02:00Sorry typos due to too small touchscreen.Sorry typos due to too small touchscreen.Maurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670078523265515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-24634367355448320022016-02-29T17:57:35.925+02:002016-02-29T17:57:35.925+02:00The difference berween those ibs-results and my ds...The difference berween those ibs-results and my dstat-result is that my results show less similarity between ančient samples and drifted populations, like Scots. I do have Scots, Irish and Welsh samples. Unfortunateli I have no real German samples. Another shortcoming in the study is that it uses only one Finnsh sample and because the Finns are a very diverge population (mixed) I have to state you that one sample is not a statistic.<br /><br /><br />I am going to continue with other ancient British samples. After i am ready i can do also ibs-statistics, although ibs is not as reliable as dstat and genetic drift in finding commn ancestry. Maurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670078523265515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3427954556695420515.post-22241122073833801682016-02-29T16:39:18.257+02:002016-02-29T16:39:18.257+02:00IBS-results from "Genomic signals of migratio...IBS-results from "Genomic signals of migration and continuity in Britain before the Anglo-Saxons" seemed quite reasonable, the major difference compared to these D-stats is that the Finnish sample was relatively closer to the Anglo-Saxon than to the Iron Age samples but in absolute terms it was still closer than Central and East European samples.<br /><br />Could you run an IBS similarity test for the IA and AS samples using the larger database of your first figure so we could compare the difference between IBS and D-stat?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com