Thursday, December 26, 2024

New Russian study, data analysis

 Fortunately, Russian researchers, unlike their Finnish colleagues, always publish the data related to their research, and this way it was possible to download it for my own tests. First, I ran a PCA image on European populations. The picture does not so much aim to tell the position of the Eastern Baltic-Finnic populations on the genetic map of Europe, as to ensure the correctness of the data, excluding possible duplicates and outliers. The picture tells the fact that some new published samples show Baltic-Finnic affinity and identify totally with the Finnish samples well.  Those groups are widely known to have a Finnish origin, which was already stated in the study.  So there is nothing surprising.  Some other new samples in the study didn't show signigicant link with Finns and grouped with Russians, but, as we see in Dstat results, also they are related with Finns.  It has to be understood that a many-to-many test like PCA, selecting common genome  components of all samples, makes compromises in one-to-one relations.  Of particular interest is that the Mordva, who belong to another eastern Finnic group, clearly stand out from the Baltic-Finnic groups and appear to be an approximate Russian-Chuvash mix, while the Baltic-Finnic groups, as their name suggests, place between the Baltic people and the more boreal Finno-Ugric.


It's also interesting to note that my own location is moving more and more towards the Balts. Eastern Baltic-Finnic people don't like me, even though commercial American tests define me as 100% Finnish. This commercial test result contradicts all scientific admixture and PCA analyses, though. This can be explained by the fact that American commercial tests are aimed at Americans who are interested in the familiar matter of where on the old continent their ancestors came from. It is easy to make a dedicated test to identify a population with distinct and local recent (let's say 8-10 generations) ancestry and disregard minor or older genetic drift. Of course this is a dissatisfactory situation for us living on the old continent. This paragraph as a side note.


The material, other than study samples,  was downloaded from the Reichlab website without changing anything, except for the Finnish ones, which are from the 1000genomes project. Regarding PCA, I limited the number of Finns to ten random samples. The Dstat data includes all 99 Finns.

Dstat results show strong Finnish kinship in all Karelians and Ingerians, as well as in Veps and Votes. By comparing Finns and Estonians in relation to the east Baltic-Finnic groups of the study, it can be concluded that the Karelians, Ingrians and Veps are most closely related to the Finns and the Estonians to the other east Baltic-Finnic groups of the study. From the comparison between Finns and Russians, it can be concluded that the Novgorod, Pskov and Yaroslavl groups are clearly leaning away from the Finns, but whether this is due to the Estonian or Russian proximity of these research groups remains to be determined. Maybe I'll come back to this later.

Test format: dstat (Finnish,group to compare:study group,outgroup)



























Edit 28.12.24 22:00


It turned out that the Estonians are cousins ​​of the Baltic-Finnic groups of Novgorod, Pskov and Yaroslavl. Only Andreapol ranks at the same distance as the Estonians when measured by genetic drift.












And I couldn't resist comparing myself to Estonians. In the groups Ingrians, Karelians (Livvi), Karelians (Tver), Novgorod (others) and Yaroslavl (Mologa) we are on the same level (approximately).








Reading about the lost tribes 

Mologa history -> link

Novgorod history -> link

Thursday, December 19, 2024

New Russian study is worth reading

 A new Russian study (-> link ) describes the history, genetics and migrations of the Baltic-Finnic groups around the Baltic, Ladoga and White Sea. Overall, I think the description is accurate. The usual conceptual blunders of non-Finns and non-Estonians regarding the words Finnic and Finno-Ugric are also largely avoided, but not completely. The research is groundbreaking in a way, because nothing similar has been done by Finns and Estonians. This does not mean that Finns and Estonians do not know the same things. However, this study provides a lot of new information for those less familiar with the subject.


Seen through the eyes of a Finn, the history of the eastern Baltic-Finnic groups gets a special mention, which I think is broadly correct. The division into Karelian language and Karelian dialect will not be made. I would have liked clarifications on other language issues as well. The timings of the migrations of the eastern Baltic-Finnic groups give special reason for thanks. I also found new information from these, and I strongly believe in the Russians' know-how. A small minus is that first the birth of these groups is described correctly as a result of the west-east migrations of the first millennium, which surprised me, because in Russian studies, Baltic-Finnic migrations to the Baltic Sea are usually described only in the opposite order, and then in the genetics part of the study, the grouping is done on the basis of eastern groups.


Seen on the basis of old information, the Tarand burial method is somewhat illogically connected to the easternmost branch of the N-haplogroup.  The branch Z1927 is characteristic for the eastern Baltic-Finnic groups and the Tarand graves are part of the western Baltic-Finnic culture. Although this contradiction is noticed, there is no explanation. The significance of the Tarand graves in the investigation of the origin of the Baltic-Finnic populations is seen as essential. However, it must be reminded that the presence of Z1927 in Karelia alone does not necessarily prove the direction of migration. Very often mixing of different populations and population bottlenecks cause local changes in both culture and inheritance, and it cannot be assumed that Z1927 was involved in the migration that led to the spread of the Tarand burial.

I don't comment on the genetic results because I don't have the necessary material to make comparisons.

Edit 21.12.24 12:30-13:30

I found those popular Eutogenes G25 coordinates for the study samples. Eurogenes G25 is an admixture in good and bad.  Using ancient samples there is certain value, but using modern populations you can't make decisions about the origin or ancestry. 

Here three results of Finns, first my own result.  


Target: maurim1_scaled
Distance: 0.6842% / 0.00684208
26.2Shetlandic
22.8Ingrians
18.6Pskov_(Porkhov)
8.4Ingrian_Finns
5.0Votes
4.8Veps
4.4Karelians_(North)
3.6Karelians_(SW_Karelians_(SW_Livvi)
3.2Lithuanian_VZ
1.2Lithuanian_PZ
0.8Dusun
0.8Shor_Khakassia
0.2Karitiana


Target: Finnish_Southwest
Distance: 0.7902% / 0.00790222
26.2Karelians_(Tver)
23.0Icelandic
17.8Ingrians
14.4Veps
9.8Ingrian_Finns
7.6Karelians_(SE_Karelians_(SE_Ludic)
1.2Shetlandic


Target: Finnish_East
Distance: 0.6825% / 0.00682458
45.8Ingrians
41.0Ingrian_Finns
7.4Karelians_(North)
2.8Saami
1.2Veps
0.8Norwegian
0.6Mari
0.4Ethiopian_Anuak

Here results for the study sample averages. I used dist col 0.5 to avoid excessive columns. The last column is Russian Ryazan